Thursday, July 08, 2021

Donald Trump Reportedly Praised Hitler During a Trip Honoring U.S. Troops, claiming Hitler “did a lot of good things,” Trump told then-White House chief of staff John Kelly, per Wall Street Journal reporter Michael Bender.

 

Why do I believe every word of this byline? Trump is the man who, it is said, had a copy of Hitler's speeches and/or Mein Kampf on his night table!

Trump is a rightwing extremist by his own admission a "nationalist."  What is there about the rightwing extremist nationalism that most of us who hold humanitarian left of center viewpoints abhor? As Justice Poter Stewart said of hard core pornography "I know it when I see it."  So I say the same of the right wing nationalism and extremist white supremacist political opinion.  I know its poison when I see and hear it. 

Examining the nature of the signs that the pro Trump attackers of the Capitol carried, the militaristic and other dress of many of those who were so violent on January 6, 2021, the tenor of the population of that seditious mob clearly placed them as white supremacist nationalists excluding many they deem as "the other." At the behest of Trump they attacked the pinnacle  of democracy, the  Capitol to prevent the presidential election from being certified.   Amid the plethora of Trump flags his supporters donned t-shirts that said "Camp Auschwitz" referring to one of the Nazis most horrific death camps.  Another shirt sported the logo 6MWE or six million wasn't enough referring to the estimates of Jews murdered in Hitler's Holocaust.  The man Trump thinks did "a lot of good things" was responsible for the deaths of 6 million innocents and 50,000,000 others in the theater of WWII perpetrated by the man Trump admires who claimed his German Reich would last a thousand years but really lasted 12.

The right wing extremists of this nation are gun loving, often violent males who think nothing of injuring, hurting or even killing those who would oppose them.  In addition, they are authoritarian in nature and they are wedded to the authoritarian nature of Trump whom they see as strong. The narcissist Trump, however, I submit, does not see himself as strong but knows in the darkest corner of his mind he is, in truth, weak and inferior to most of his peers as evidenced by the losses Trump experiences in most everything he touches.  He tries to cover up his many failings with lies about himself and his gullible followers succumb unquestioning to his mesmerizing appeal caring nothing for the truth. 

The Nazi Goebels said " “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."  The big lie in our time has been repeated again and again by Republicans that the 2020 election was permeated by fraud.  We know by the judgement of experts and courts over and over again it was one of the cleanest elections in US history and Biden not Trump is the rightful president of the United States.   
So what now is at stake -- only the demise of the world's primary historical example of democracy and civil libertarian self government.  If the Trumpians someday prevail we will know what it means to live in an authoritarian state leaving us open to the overreach of a tyrannical government unfree to question any policy of it in perpetuity.  We will know that Trumpian Republicans, the only face of the new dastardly Republican Party, has diabolically in "14 GOP controlled states passed laws to impede free elections.  24 new laws will "politicize, criminalize and interfere in election administration" and the right wing political tilt of the Supreme Court in a recent 6/3 decision has sanctioned all of it.

A blogger stated: "Trump: traitor (attempted coup), horrific grifter, violated campaign finance laws, obstructed justice, abused power, engaged in witness tampering, attempted extortion (Ukrainian president), responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people (the lying and vilification of a virus), threatened healthcare professionals, caged and killed human beings (including children), and tried to strong arm election officials. Partial list. Where is Trump? Grifting off the dupes whom he despises. One standard of justice? Will he be convicted?"

I aver Trump is the slimiest, most corrupt slug that ever polluted our oval office with his presence and that ever occupied the seat of the highest most celebrated office in the land. May he never see that oval office again.  Only you can ensure he does not!!  SEND THIS TO ANYONE YOU CHOOSE AND URGE YOUR SENATOR TO SUPPORT HR1 -- For the People Act.


Sunday, July 04, 2021

"Rising European anti-Semitism blamed on lockdowns"


 

 

How is this possible? After the 6,000,000+ dead of the Holocaust I never thought I would live to see this happening again! "Hateful attacks on Jews have been increasing in Europe for years, but   pandemic restrictions have led to an upsurge.

Mankind seems to never learn but if they do not learn we must teach them history's truth.

Never Again must mean never again!   Fight AntiSemitism, Fascism and hate no matter the group to whom hate is directed and remain
ever vigilant always.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3cvlBDFvmg&t=17s

Tuesday, June 29, 2021

The Age of Trump

 

My Comment: The age of right wing extremism is not just a phenomenon in America.  It is happening all over Europe in Hungary, in France, in Britain and, yes, even in a Germany that once brought you the extermination of 6 million Jews and the murdering of 50,000,000 others in the theater of WWII.  It is happening around the globe I maintain inspired in large part by Trump's capturing the Republican party as a gateway to an authoritarian politic. 

Perhaps this Frontline special will ask the ever present question why.  Why is this happening?  Why in our democracy loving nation, a nation that won WWII against the Nazi menace does this nation find as evidenced by the January 6 insurrection of the Capitol right wing seditionists whose T-shirts read "6MWE" (Six Million Wasn't Enough) worn by the right wing extremist Proud Boys and another shirt which read "Camp Auschwitz."  This was the flavor of the Donald Trump inspired overthrow of our nation complete with Confederate flags and present day American Nazi symbols. 

Have we had enough of the Trump and his Republican choir boys subverting our true culture?   I'd like to think so.  Send this email to all you choose encouraging them to work against any possibility of a Trump victory or for that matter Republican anti-democracy victories in Congress as well as in state legislatures as they try to subvert elections through a second Jim Crow era targeting the voter elimination of Blacks and other persons of color who vote Democratic.  If Trump fails here perhaps Fascism will not gain a foothold anywhere else -- even in Germany.

FRONTLINE:

An attempted massacre of worshipers at a synagogue on Yom Kippur. The assassination of a pro-refugee politician. A mass shooting targeting Muslims. Extremists, many of them ex-military, planning for civil war, creating death lists and stockpiling weapons and body bags.

What has fueled the wave of violence and hate against against Jews, Muslims, immigrants and left-wing politicians in Germany over the past five years?
Decades after the Holocaust, tonight's new FRONTLINE documentary investigates the rise of neo-Nazi ideology and far-right extremism in modern-day Germany — including within the country’s military and police — and why authorities are struggling to confront the growing problem.

From reporter, producer and director Evan Williams, Germany's Neo-Nazis & the Far Right premieres tonight on PBS and online. The documentary is supported by Exploring Hate, a multiplatform public media initiative from The WNET Group in New York aimed at offering an in-depth understanding of the rising tide of hatred, hate crimes, antisemitism and racism.
Gripping and alarming, Germany’s Neo-Nazis & the Far Right is a powerful look at Germany’s efforts to come to terms with its past — and its present.

“Right-wing extremism is the most vital threat that we face at the moment in the Federal Republic of Germany,” Stephan Kramer, the intelligence chief in Germany's Thuringia state, says in the film. “We have 'round about 35,000 considered right-wing extremists across Germany; 13 to 14,000, roughly spoken, considered to be aggressive and violent. But the problem is, it’s like with an iceberg: You see just a small tip on the surface, and the rest is beneath.”

Don't miss the documentary The Wall Street Journal calls “riveting and richly complex" and “a compelling investigation into the rise of extremism in a country that has known its terrors.”
Germany's Neo-Nazis & the Far Right premieres tonight at 10/9c on PBS stations (check local listings) and on YouTube, and will be available to stream starting at 7/6c in the PBS Video App and in FRONTLINE’s online collection of documentaries.

Thank you for watching.

PATRICE TADDONIO

Digital Writer & Audience Development Strategist, FRONTLINE

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Wednesday, June 23, 2021

Nation, heal thyself! A film recommendation

 

Film recommendation: HBO Max --"It's a Sin." I have never seen a better film about the beginning of the AIDS epidemic than this one. It was superb from the first episode to the last it was brilliant. If you get HBO Max I suggest seeing it or if you don't then perhaps you can rent it. Not sure about that. It is surely well worth it.

I am old enough that I remember the beginning of the AIDS viral epidemic when no one knew what it was and how it spread. It spread among a group that was vilified and subjected to an onslaught of ignorance of which this nation had an abundance and still does. AIDS still has no vaccine but it does have treatment which brings the viral load to zero so it does not spread. Moreover, we were taught what to do to avoid getting or transmitting it and no fights broke out when one obeyed the science directive.

I had a male friend then who was gay and even rational me succumbed to that ignorance in silence for a time assiduously washing my hands wherever I could find a sink because we did not know how it spread but when science overcomes ignorance, religious superstition and stupidity which it always does as it has with AIDS and COVID then a nation can heal itself!  Maybe ours will and maybe science will use the COVID mRNA vaccine to finally develop a vaccine that works on AIDS as well.

A virus does not care to whom it spreads.  It merely has to have a vector.  AIDS did not spread easily but was spread by blood and other bodily fluids through sex or blood transmission.  COVID does spread easily and science has taught us how it spreads to the lungs. If unvaccinated through a mere cough the virus can find its home and overcome even the strongest to kill us.


All should get the COVID vaccine and use science to overcome the conspiratorial crazy that has infected our nation.  
 


Saturday, June 19, 2021

Happy Juneteenth -- The Taste of Freedom

The next icon to be changed is the racist face of Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill.  Trump had a picture of the white supremacist Jackson on his desk in the oval office.  According to Wiki "Jackson was responsible for the murder of thousands of American Indians during their The Trail of Tears exile initiated by Jackson as part of a series of forced displacements of approximately 100,000 Native Americans between 1830 and 1850 by the United States government known as the Indian removal.  Thousands died before reaching their destinations or shortly after from disease."

The picture on the $20 will be changed to Harriet Tubman.  According to Wiki "American abolitionist born into slavery. Tubman escaped and subsequently made some 13 missions to rescue approximately 70 enslaved people, including family and friends, using the network of antislavery activists and safe houses known as the Underground Railroad."

The taste of freedom will not be denied. MLK said "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" and so it will be in our age no matter how many white racists try to subvert it, no matter how many Jim Crow laws they try to reenact and no matter how many votes the seditionists try to take away we will never give in, we will fight them with every breath we take and mount a voting offensive so huge it will stagger the imaginations of lesser men. 

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Harriet Tubman

The Emancipation--Happy Juneteenth
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Saturday, June 05, 2021

Abolish Filibuster Or you will be thrown Out Of The Senate

 

"Former Arizona Attorney General Grant Woods prominently backed Sinema, but he says she now needs to support getting rid of the filibuster."

My Comment:  Good advice. Both she and Joe Manchin should really think about what they are doing or not doing. If the voting rights act HR1 does not pass because of a meaningless filibuster then they are not thinking rationally about what transformation into which our sad nation will evolve.

Sen. Sinema, and Sen. Manchin you may by your obstinacy not realize that you single handedly will be responsible for the catapulting of our nation into an autocracy from which it may never recover and ultimately could mean a loss of both your Democratic seats. Think hard on what you do. The democracy you save may be your own!

Wednesday, June 02, 2021

Oppose Authoritarian Tyranny

 

The only strategy left if the Supreme Court allows the Republican attempts to axe Democratic and minority groups unfairly out of the electoral process is to marshal ALL of our majority forces and VOTE VOTE VOTE Republicans OUT of state office and VOTE Democrats into both state and federal offices.

In addition, one hopes Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema will vote with their Democratic majority in the senate to preserve fair voting rights and Pass HR1 and HR4 to make voting rights once again the law of the land.

We must comply with it all if it is allowed to stand by the heavily rightwing biased court, and vote Democrats into high office without fail. Otherwise the nation is doomed to authoritarian tyranny!



Friday, May 28, 2021

Republicans Filibuster Bill Establishing Bipartisan Jan. 6 Commission The GOP blockade of a bipartisan probe of the Jan. 6

 Well that was predictable. So what are the predictable weakling Democrats going to do ... NOTHING as usual? Dems as my friend said are the Debating club and the Republicans play football.


Dems should absolutely post haste exterminate the filibuster.....now while for one second in time we have the power.....To hell with Manchin just fight take your boxing gloves and put them on and FIGHT like Republicans would.  Take some lessons from them and just do it!
 

Wednesday, May 26, 2021

The True Republican Steal

 

The following is a well thought out description sent to me by a writer/journalist friend of exactly what Republicans are doing to not only threaten free and fair elections but threaten the entirety of our democracy as well.  The following should be spread far and wide with the appropriate hyperlink attachment below.  Thank you, Jerry, for your astute analysis.  Let's hope it works magic on the Democratic National Committee and beyond to which I am sending a copy in hopes that someone can rectify this Republican ugly, unfair and unethical strategy to perfect the true Republican electoral steal!  Pass this on to anyone you choose.

The Republicans know they can no longer win the popular vote, so they're trying to win the electoral vote. But now they can't do that fair-and-square either, so they're setting things up to cheat in 2024.

They're going to claim nonexistent fraud in any close state, then set up state laws that allow the state legislatures to overrule whatever the official results say and make it impossible for anyone to challenge them.

The only dig I have at the Dems is that they should be fighting back now while there are still nearly three years until the election.

They should be enshrining the current rules into their state constitutions by referendum, but they probably won't.

Once again, I have to say that the Dems are the debate club and the Repubs are the football team. The Dems want to make a logical argument to win points with the debate judges, while the Repubs just want to win the election by any means fair or foul.





Tuesday, May 18, 2021

THE UNDERGROUND RAILROAD -- BRILLIANT BEYOND WORDS

 

Oh, America, you have sinned a great sin where your citizens of color are concerned.  How much of a sin?  You be the judge by watching this film and learn!

According to IMDB "The actual Underground Railroad was a secret network of people and safe houses. The National Underground Railroad Freedom Center here in Cincinnati, where I live, simply referred to as the Freedom Center by us locals, is an outstanding museum dedicated to this topic. Of course Cincinnati was the first major city across the Dixie line and this region played a major historical role in this important movement."

This should be must viewing for all those in this nation who should pause to view the American history of slavery to get the feel of slavery in America. It is an eye opening and, yes, a difficult experience to watch.  It gives credence to those in this nation who dedicate themselves to the transparency of, as de Tocqueville described it, "the peculiar institution."   It is, I thought, riveting viewing and lends itself to binge watching but warning an accounting of slavery in America is understatedly heart rendering but necessary to watch.

Like the Holocaust of WWII a historical accounting of slavery in America should be seen by all. "The Underground Railroad" is brilliant beyond words.

Wednesday, May 12, 2021

A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It

 

The below link is a very well thought out excellent analysis of a fantasy rift we as Democrats are hoping is a description of the present day GOP. In reality it is not. Read the article to see why. It makes my eyes well up with tears hoping I never wake up to see the bastion of corruption, fraud, indecency and democracy destroying Trump ever elected to the oval office again.

We have historical insight as humans since we can see what a fascist type authoritarian democracy destroying white nationalism, the legacy of Trump, can do and it is not pretty. Yes, Nazi Germany and fascist Italy come to mind.  White nationalists are tribal, they are violent and have zero empathy for those persons who do not look like them. The violence of the January 6th mob raid on our most sacred institution, the Capitol, is not an exception to the fascistic rule it is the rule. The beasts who killed and maimed capitol police, ransacked offices and even defecated where they stood can never be allowed to sit in the halls of American power.  This nation which has historically marched with the better angels of our nature bending toward justice will return to the law of the jungle of kill or be killed if Trump reigns again. We must never let that happen.

This is why more than ever a Democratic push to save its power and never cede it to the forces of an authoritarian democracy destroying Trump must be made. An all out effort needs to ensue to save the democracy of this nation. This is no joke and must be treated with the seriousness of a heart attack rushing
to save the life of a once hopeful nation. Passing the For the People Act is a start to stem the institutional electoral take over through gerrymandering and cruel voter suppression by an unconscionable GOP that will not allow even water or food given to those standing in line to vote.  What has happened to our nation that Republican state houses have passed and governors from many states have signed this draconian legislation into law?

We are at a turning point in this nation.  Either we save it and democracy for generations that come after us or we succumb to the deep corruption of a Donald Trump and those like him.  We have a choice to do the right thing or see our Founders' hopes for a democratic way of life die lynched from the highest poplar tree. 

Wednesday, May 05, 2021

Judge Orders Justice Dept. To Release Trump Obstruction Memo

"U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson said the Justice Department had obscured “the true purpose of the memorandum” when it withheld the document."
Read the attached link below.  As one blogger put it: 

"The key wording in Mueller's press conference were around the fact that they were bound NOT to implicate the President because they weren't ALLOWED to. He carefully worded the fact that it did not mean that he "couldn't" be accused, as opposed to "wouldn't" under current Department of Justice guidelines and the Constitution. He is no longer a sitting President. So let's finally learn what was in the Mueller Report in total. Please."

and another

"Once people start to hear and see some of the criminal acts committed by the previous president his administration and DOJ they'll understand why trump shouldn't be ever elected to any office. The Republicans know the truth yet they'll continue to lie and act like he's not a threat to democracy, his campaign did collude with Russia, he was impeached twice and he did lose the election and lead the insurrection against the Capitol hoping to stop certification of the election."

Rachel Maddow reported an excellent segment yesterday explaining with clarity the sordid mess.  It is worth reviewing and committing to memory as she reports so well on the aforementioned crime and other things surrounding and implicating Trump!  We who love justice await the criminal implication of Trump who so justly deserves punishment for so many criminal and unconstitutional acts .


Sent this to anyone you choose.



 

Thursday, April 29, 2021

Grade A

I listened to all of President Biden's speech.  I loved it.  He is such a dramatic difference from former president you know who.  Joe Biden is the polar opposite of him. 

The president's speech gave us everything.  It was articulate, humane and generally brilliant.  Without going into the minutiae of it I post a link below of notables who gave Biden and the speech a grade -- mostly excellent.  Some also gave a grade to the Republican rebuttal Tim Scott (the only black Republican senator) -- mostly not so excellent or even good.  Were these partisan grades?  I'd like to think not.

I say thumbs up to Joe Biden and give him a resounding A!

Monday, April 26, 2021

The Oscars

 

My first opinion I overruled.  I said: Couldn't bring myself to watch yet another meaningless awards ceremony especially in the age of COVID. If you are to believe this opinion the Oscars failed spectacularly. Wow what a good choice I made not to watch it.  OVERRULED

MY FINAL ANSWER:  Well, I watched it as far be it from me to take my opinion from some other source without making my own judgment. I was surprised that mostly I liked it. I liked it because I tape it and can fast forward all the rambling thank yous of people I do not know and commercials that waste so much time. I cut out probably over an hour of impatience. Having said that, the age of Covid Oscars were interesting.

I came upon the end that has been much maligned because it cheated the deceased Chadwick Boseman out of an Oscar many wanted him posthumously to get only to be eclipsed by Anthony Hopkins who did not even show up. I see the anger as Boseman was like a James Dean, an exceptional talent leaving this earth and depriving us from viewing more artistic excellence. Having said that, I am sure Hopkins performance surrounding Alzheimer's was worthy of the award. Too bad he was not present to receive the honor. Perhaps he did not realize he would win.
  • https://www.huffpost.com/entry/oscars-2021-academy-awards-twist-ending_n_60864283e4b0ccb91c265415?fbclid=IwAR0C-60Cx6-_XQv4082guWq1mV_8uv6k_k9tc1cQ4Lp-BKDtzGKx4txSJhI
  • Wednesday, April 21, 2021

    Columbus police officer fatally shoots girl swinging knife

     

    What will it take for police not to have open season on persons of color? We celebrate one victory for justice in Minneapolis only to have another possibly unjust police shooting of a Black person happen yet again in Columbus, Ohio. Again? Yet again? Do they not learn? Is taking a life justified with a gun because the assaulter had a knife but did not have a gun--a 15 year old girl I might add.  Is proportionate force not a concept?  Are not there other areas of the body that would not kill but still protect those who are threatened by an aggressor?


    I do not get it. I simply don't. I am speechless for once.


    Monday, April 19, 2021

    Hester Ford, Oldest Living American, Has Died. Ford was either 115 or 116 years old depending on which census report was accurate.

     

    This woman sets an example to everyone. (See link below.) I will not be able to reflect and copy much of her example but it does give me pause for thought. Perseverance is one word that comes to mind describing her life. I can emulate that and I can show kindness, empathy and humane actions toward my fellow man.

    Hester Ford shows one does not need gold plated everything or billion dollar fortunes to see what is important in this life. No matter the obstacles life places in one's way, life, I think, is worth living. I keep telling myself that every day. Good for you, Hester Ford, your life is significant. Her memory will be a blessing for so many!

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hester-ford-dead-oldest-american_n_6066c7aac5b6c55118b1f72b

    Saturday, April 17, 2021

    A Documentary for all seasons

     

    "Exterminate all the Brutes" by Raoul Peck--HBO. This is the greatest documentary on the etiology of man's brutality including genocide that I have ever seen. I sat for 4 hours straight as I watched the four parts in their entirety.  It rather makes me want to join an antiFascist group. It is so poignant, revelatory and true. It even includes my once online friend and BU professor Howard Zinn and his "A People's History of the United States." Peck loves the late Howard Zinn too. It gives a black eye literally to the notion of American exceptionalism and tells the truth of western civilization's contribution to early colonialism, the massacre of indigenous people all around the world and the violence of white supremacy. It kicks that swine president Trail of Tears initiator Andrew Jackson -- you know the picture that Donald DUMP had of him in the oval office -- into oblivion.

    It left me mentally exhausted and sad but better informed as it goes into the not-so-glorious western civilization, the Holocaust and Auschwitz in detail I had never seen before and I thought I had seen them all. Make America Great again but he asks when was it ever great. And yet how did other civilizations that have accumulated wealth and power act over centuries? He goes into that too.

    To me it asks the question: is mankind doomed? Watching the January 6 invasion of the Capitol by American Fascists like the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys and the Charlotte march of Nazis saying "Jews will not replace us" one can see that a Fascist state here and around the world in other nations is possible -- god forbid!

    Thursday, April 15, 2021

    The warning signs of a longer pandemic

    Read the article below. It is a good one.


    The takeaway and the bottom line: "This darker future is preventable, and our abundant supply of highly effective vaccines is the way to prevent it. The more people get vaccinated now, the smaller the role COVID-19 is likely to play in the rest of our lives."


    Tuesday, April 06, 2021

    What Happened After the Liberation of Auschwitz--My Comment: For All Time

     

    For those who climbed and those who saw those who climbed the Capitol steps January 6, 2021 in an onslaught perpetrated by a right wing extremist nationalist mob, killed Capitol officers and defiled our national treasure read this link below and know it can happen here.

    Read this and weep for every Jew of the six million and all the others who were put into the Nazi slaughter machine and truly vow the mantra "never again" be permanently etched in humanity's mind for all time.

    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/what-happened-after-the-liberation-of-auschwitz?utm_source=pocket-newtab

    Sunday, March 28, 2021

    A MOUNTAIN TO CLIMB SO CLIMB IT

     https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/georgia-s-jim-crow-voter-suppression-bill-now-law-here-ncna1262254

     
    No matter what the obstacle, no matter how hard the low lives make it for persons of color and others to vote we must take the bull by the horns and meet each requirement with a way to obey what they are asking Democrats and others to do. I said the very same thing for the 2020 election cycle and it worked!

    Find out when one must deliver the vote and do it, find out what is the required ID and get it. If you need help ask for it from Democrats in positions to get it for you or to help you. In other words VOTE EN MASSE!! Vote obeying all their dastardly voter suppression requirements.

    You should be OUTRAGED that these slugs are doing the obvious to deny those persons of color and others who will vote Democratic the vote. Do NOT let them deny it. Rather beat them at their own game. Obey their crap Jim Crow II rules no matter what they are.

    Oh yes, if water and food are denied then bring your own. Democrats should make sure their voters have enough by getting food and water delivered to EVERYONE BEFORE they stand to vote. We can SWAMP these Republican immoral swine and beat them at their own game. Do this ALL OVER THE NATION WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE ATTEMPTING THESE SWINISH DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES.

    WE MUST FIGHT THEM AND NEVER GIVE IN. BRING OUR DEMOCRATS AND ALLIES OUT IN DROVES ALL OVER THE NATION AND MAKE THEM SORRY THEY BUILT A MOUNTAIN SO HIGH THEY THOUGHT YOU COULD NOT CLIMB IT. YOU CAN CLIMB IT AND I PREDICT YOU WILL!!!

    Democratic Presidential Convention--On to November

      I watched the Democratic convention last evening until my body's demand for sleep overtook me around midnight.  Having followed thin...